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	<title>Hmm &#187; Science &amp; Philosophy</title>
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	<link>http://daktre.com</link>
	<description>Outspoken musings on nature and nurture</description>
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		<title>Canned corn at Google&#8217;s cost</title>
		<link>http://daktre.com/2010/06/28/canned-corn-at-googles-cost/</link>
		<comments>http://daktre.com/2010/06/28/canned-corn-at-googles-cost/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 11:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Science & Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[humour]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[poem]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daktre.com/?p=190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, here's another poem and like my previous poem blogs, again not by me, but in reaction to email dissemination of my attempts at serious rhyme through poem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Bessie Braddock (to Winston Churchill): Winston, you&#8217;re drunk.</p>
<p>Churchill: Bessie, you&#8217;re ugly. But tomorrow I shall be sober.</p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: x-small;"> </span></p></blockquote>
<div class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 245px"><img title="George Bernard Shaw showing scorn and resentment at corny humour such as this poem" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/George_Bernad_Shaw_looking_at_camera.jpg" alt="" width="235" height="360" /><p class="wp-caption-text">George Bernard Shaw showing scorn and resentment at corny humour such as this poem</p></div>
<p>This exchange (perhaps apocryphal like any other exchange attributed to Churchill) is up there for no particular reason. I find it funny and that quite suits.</p>
<p>Well, here&#8217;s another poem and like my previous poem blogs, again not by me, but in reaction to email dissemination of my attempts at serious rhyme through poem. In response to fierce criticism through email that in the real world could have translated to egg on my face, I retorted with the life experience of George Bernard Shaw and his travails at finding a publisher for his work for nine years. Of course, the implication in invoking Shaw being that I may somehow be of such a kind. A good friend from  <a title="A lab with science" href="http://www.ncbs.res.in/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=203&amp;Itemid=9" target="_blank">this lab</a> which has some science on its menu had this to say:</p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: x-small;"> </span></p>
<blockquote><p><em>Please desist from the literary arts<br />
Yours stink worse than lighted farts<br />
If at all you must persist<br />
Then let your works be lost in mist</em></p>
<p><em>By mist I mean oblivion</em> <em><br />
Forever and ever &#8211; time AND space<br />
We are not your guinea pigs<br />
So spare us all, the human race</em></p>
<p><em>You would be better received on Mars</em> <em><br />
Where life forms are not yet sentient<br />
Go recite to rocks and fungi<br />
At least they&#8217;ll be more patient</em></p>
<p><em>And if this is a dent to your ego</em> <em><br />
I hope it comes well in time<br />
For failure after much persistence<br />
Is like your work, an empty rhyme</em></p></blockquote>
<p><em> </em>Coming from a person with as corny a sense of humour as corn itself, I chose to make it funnier using a recent and under-utilised humour tool, called Google Translate. Yes, as useful as it might be for writing emails in our own languages (even Indic ones now!), it can be used very effectively for humour. Running this poem through <a title="Canned corn" href="http://translate.google.com" target="_blank">Google Translate</a> produces:</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;">कृपया  साहित्यिक कला से विरत<br />
तुम्हारा जला farts बदबू से भी बदतर<br />
अगर तुम सब पर  दृढ़ रहना चाहिए<br />
तो फिर अपने काम करता है धुंध में खो दिया जा</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;">धुंध तक मैं  विस्मरण का मतलब<br />
हमेशा के लिए और कभी &#8211; समय और स्थान<br />
हम अपने गिनी सूअरों नहीं कर रहे हैं<br />
इसलिए हम सभी को छोड़ दो, मानव जाति</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;">आप बेहतर मंगल ग्रह पर प्राप्त होगा<br />
जहां  जीवन रूपों अभी तक संवेदनशील नहीं हैं<br />
चट्टानों  और कवक को सुनाना जाओ<br />
कम से कम वे अधिक रोगी  हो जाएगा</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;">और अगर यह अपने अहंकार के लिए  एक गड्ढा है<br />
मुझे आशा है कि यह समय में अच्छी  तरह से आता है<br />
बहुत हठ के बाद असफलता के लिए<br />
अपने काम, एक खाली कविता की तरह है</span></p></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>And that is how you can have canned corn at Google&#8217;s cost!</p>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Aint no pedia like Wikipedia</title>
		<link>http://daktre.com/2009/11/11/aint-no-pedia-like-wikipedia/</link>
		<comments>http://daktre.com/2009/11/11/aint-no-pedia-like-wikipedia/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Birds]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science & Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Boston review]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bureaucracy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mintzberg]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Morozov]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Myna]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Organisational behaviour]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[svg illustrations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wikimedia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wikimedia Commons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wikipedia]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daktre.com/?p=120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<blockquote>Bureaucracy was expected</blockquote>
Morozov brings up the valid argument that bureaucracy is choking the cyclopaedia. No large institution was ever run as in a fly-by-wire manner in which small NGOs or garage-based companies are run. Bureaucracy is an expected consequence of such a mass collaboration....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gracula.svg"><img alt="" src="http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/thumb.php?f=Gracula.svg&#038;width=1000px" title="Geographical distribution of various forms of the a myna" class="alignnone" width="500" height="277" /></a></p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Hill_Myna">Gracula religiosa</a> is the latin name of the Hill Myna, a beautiful bird seen along the Western Ghats and associated South Indian hills. It is one of the endemic birds here and has recently been elevated to a full species, and rechristened Southern Hill Myna. Not getting into the boring details of why this was done, and how this is relevant to anybody, the above image introduces you to the similar looking forms of this bird, found across several areas and islands in South and Southeast Asia. Now, whether these other forms are actually the brothers of the myna we see in places in the Western Ghats or cousins, once, twice or thrice removed is the boring taxonomic question. <a href="http://jboyd.net/Taxo/taxo_refs.html">Pages and pages</a> of literature are available on the above and <a href="http://jboyd.net/Taxo/TIF%20World%20List%20v3.xls">lists are often updated</a>. Particularly, bird families such as warblers are prone to causing confusion and consternation, both in the field <a href="http://jboyd.net/Taxo/sam3.html">as well as in literature</a>!</p>
<p>Now, this beautiful illustration that is used in a small corner of the article on the hill myna is created by a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Shyamal">volunteer editor and a friend</a> for Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia&#8230;..the one that &#8216;anybody can edit&#8217;. Well, almost&#8230;.and that is exactly the problem for <a href="http://www.evgenymorozov.com/">Evgeny Morozov</a>. In an <a href="http://bostonreview.net/BR34.6/morozov.php">article for the Boston Review</a>, he presents his viewpoint on the way wikipedia is being run (or not run). </p>
<p>Illustrations like the one that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Shyamal">Shyamal</a> has created are created voluntarily and for illustrating wikipedia articles. However, the fact that people like Shyamal have put up these illustrations in Wikimedia commons under a license that permits anybody to use it, especially for non-commercial and educational purposes evokes intrigue and incomprehensibility for Morozov. He asks “Why do Wikipedians spend countless hours improving the site, often doing mundane, repetitive tasks they would never do for money?” It is a very well articulated question? And it would be too romantic of me to profess, greater common good or information equity as answers. While such lofty ideas do drive many contributions, many others are there for much more mundane reasons – geekiness, exercising authority and many others for sheer fun. </p>
<p>Wikimedia commons is an immense repository of over 5,000,000 <div class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 257px"><a href="http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/09/02/wikimedia-commons-breaks-the-5000000-file-mark/"><img alt="Scan of the front page of an 1838 Danish newspaper" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Kj%C3%B8benhavnsposten_28_nov_1838_side_1.jpg" title="The 5 millionth file on commons" width="247" height="337" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Scan of the front page of an 1838 Danish newspaper</p></div>images and media contributed by the same ragtag lot that is alluded to in the article by Morozov. These are today being used widely in schools, colleges, research presentations and to illustrate scientific work as well! The site encourages reuse, if necessary with modification <a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Reusing_content_outside_Wikimedia">in as many words</a>! For me, this is an expression of information equity. An effort at bringing information of all kinds on a platform where it is easily usable by anybody, with no tags attached. Just that, if achieved, I would view any number of articles that happen on Wikipedia as just a fringe benefit. And what I see is much more than fringe, and a lot more than benefit. </p>
<p>Morozov&#8217;s rant on Wikipedia spurred a few thoughts of mine that are neglected in his piece. </p>
<blockquote><p>Bureaucracy was expected</p></blockquote>
<p>Morozov brings up the valid argument that bureaucracy is choking the cyclopaedia. No large institution was ever run as in a fly-by-wire manner in which small NGOs or garage-based companies are run. Bureaucracy is an expected consequence of such a mass collaboration. If you compare wikipedia to countries, it started off as a kingdom (very briefly in the beginning), progressed to run like a small NGO, then a garage-based company, but now the numbers are just too much! Yes, it does need a bureaucracy to sustain it. In the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Mintzberg#Theory_on_Organizational_Forms">Mintzberg prism</a>, this would be a transition of Wikipedia as an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhocracy">adhocracy</a> initially into a mechanistic bureaucracy. Yes, it is unfortunate.</p>
<blockquote><p>Growth of Wikipedia is plateauing</p></blockquote>
<p>After the few million articles that got created, what did anybody expect? The development that is going to happen over the next few years is going to be much more on quality. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiGnome">Wikignomes</a> go about improving citations, checking spellings, inserting quotations and italicising Latin names of biota. In isolation, all of these are &#8216;those mundane edits&#8217; that Morozov talks about, but in summation, they add up to much more. </p>
<blockquote><p>The demography of wikipedia</p></blockquote>
<p>“Wikipedians are 80 percent male, more than 65 percent single, more than 85 percent without children, and around 70 percent of them are under the age of 30.” I am male, single, without a child and around 30! I am a fairly representative sample of a Wikipedian editor. Now, Morozov intends to portray this as a consequence of Wikipedia. I believe this to be the cause. </p>
<blockquote><p>In July 2003 Lih joined the then-two-year-old encyclopedia, and within a few months became one of its administrators. (That a novice could move up so quickly illustrates how badly Wikipedia needed talent in its early days.)</p></blockquote>
<p>Being an administrator is not an award for editing or a promotion of sorts. Morozov confuses the designation of admin on wikipedia to be that of a higher caste of editors, while in fact, many prolific content contributors are not admins. They don&#8217;t choose to be either. I will not get into this, but the wikipedia I see and the one he sees are quite different. </p>
<blockquote><p>Experts are forced to engage in pointless debates with Wikipedia’s bureaucratic guardians, many of whom are persuaded only by hyper links, not cogent arguments.</p></blockquote>
<p>Scientific collaboration and networking among professionals has increased many times through Wikipedia. Biologists across the world interact with others for identification of photographs. They share data, viewpoints and arguments. There are curators of leading museums among the editorial team at Wikipedia. These get missed out in the bad biographical articles that get picked up by the media. It is nice and easy to write a polemical piece by choosing the skeletons from Wikipedia&#8217;s cupboard (which is open for all to see, by the way), but not an easy task to appreciate the meticulousness with which several professionals and amatuers collaborate in this internally chaotic, but wonderful exercise&#8230;.a bit like&#8230;ahem&#8230;life itself. In an era, where divorces between erstwhile lovers is so high, how could anybody expect seamless co-existance of a few thousand editors from across the globe writing on issues from Palestine conflict to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Greater_Short-nosed_Fruit_Bat&#038;action=historysubmit&#038;diff=322497737&#038;oldid=322496085">fellatio in fruit bats</a>!</p>
<p>That Wikipedia is chaotic, bureaucratic, plateauing in growth and biting newcomers is all quite well known and <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17554-after-the-boom-is-wikipedia-heading-for-bust.html">has been said before</a>. Morozov deserves credit for putting these things together in one essay. But, seeing the end of Wikipedia round the corner is more than just speculation. </p>
<p>I have spent a<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Prashanthns"> few thousand edits and a few hours</a> on Wikipedia. I continue to, in fact. Recently, I was impressed <a href="http://www.wec.ufl.edu/faculty/brunae/Publications/Callis_etal_2009_TREE.pdf">by an article in a scientific journal </a>calling for wikipedia contributions from scientists, more as a professional responsibility rather than some late evening altruism. But like most others (I presume), my work on Wikipedia has been immensely satisfying for me. A side-effect of this was that several article got written or improved. And that is the strength of Wikipedia. It never had the great grand vision that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Wales">our chieftain</a> evangelises around the globe. The stuff he talks about happens is a side-effect, which is not at all bad for me or for Wikipedia. It is only people who have charted some kind of a yardstick for Wikipedia that keep getting disappointed. </p>
<p>Anyways, the point I am trying to make is that Wikipedia is the best we have. The mundane editing that happens is an inescapable consequence of keeping the encyclopaedia open. The governance is transparent and open to criticism. It is much too early to pass a judgement on online content collaborations such as the one that Wikipedia is leading. The delicate balance between conserving professionalism and keeping alive collaboration by amateurs is being managed brilliantly by Wikipedia. <a href="http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Citizendium">Other spin-offs</a> which tweaked the balance some slightly, and others more towards the professional, are slowly fading away. We could do a China, and legislate articles, or blow up internally like a banana republic&#8230;.but, well, at wikipedia, we choose democracy. Democracy comes at a high price, and we pay that for Wikipedia. It is slower to get that damned card from the &#8217;sarkari&#8217; office, but hey, at least, I do not have to get orders about my future from a colonel! </p>
<p>In as much as Morozov points out these things like the extreme bureaucratisation, &#8216;biting of newcomers&#8217; and the flawed model in adminship and regulation of biographical articles, he is absolutely right. There are umpteen discussions ongoing in the back alleys of Wikipedia on all these. Change will come slowly, and that is a flaw. But there is no better way to it. </p>
<p>And, still that ultimate question is not answered which I have put up on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Prashanthns">my user page</a></p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Youre_dreaming_eh%3F/Userboxes/BetterThanWiki%3F">“This user believes that anyone who thinks Wikipedia is an unreliable source should continue their quest to find a better website.”</a></p>
<p>Image sources: Wikimedia Commons/Shyamal</p>
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		<title>The artist clarifies!</title>
		<link>http://daktre.com/2007/11/02/the-artist-clarifies/</link>
		<comments>http://daktre.com/2007/11/02/the-artist-clarifies/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Biology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Birds]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science & Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[art]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[br hills]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evolution]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[science]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daktre.com/?p=25</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the winter of 2004, from my abode in BR Hills, where I was dwelling then, I had all the time in the world to philosophize! I was writing about the artist-scientist &#8216;polarities&#8217; and one of my senior colleagues in BR Hills, responded to my turmoil by throwing some light. Stephen Jay Gould is a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the winter of 2004, from my abode in BR Hills, where I was dwelling then, I had all the time in the world to philosophize! I was writing about the artist-scientist &#8216;polarities&#8217; and one of my senior colleagues in BR Hills, responded to my turmoil by throwing some light. Stephen Jay Gould is a wonderful companion through such confusions on lonely nights&#8230;&#8230;.I am myself quite surprised on what I have just said, but if you ever go to a place like Belgium, after living for a few years in a forest in the Western Ghats, you will know what I am saying!
<p> There is some sort of light at the end of the tunnel. I have pasted below the reply of the &#8216;artist&#8217; I referred to in my earlier mail. The artist here is the doctor I work with, and he has been &#8217;seeing&#8217; birds for a <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">coupla</span>&#8216; decades now. I presume his mail will more appropriately confuse <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">Sudhee</span>! As Guru adds, the mind-body problem is what I had in my mind (!) when I penned my reply. The seat of the mind has been quite a mystery for years. The realm of the answer has been classically left to philosophers and artists. However, it is those scientists who have stood at the shores of &#8217;science&#8217; and looked beyond the oceans of art, that have seen the answer to everything.<br />I was just pondering on how science is <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_2">relevant</span> to the &#8216;artist birdwatcher&#8217;? Is it just enough then if we enjoy the whistle of a thrush and the cackle of a <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_3">bulbul</span> while not wondering on the hows, whys and whithers?</p>
<p>Consider an artist. A 20 year old man with a lot of ambition, and skilled as well (defining &#8217;skill&#8217; is altogether another discussion!). He wants to take up landscape painting. Having been in Bangalore all his life, he does not get too much of the natural landscapes he likes. He initially wants some &#8216;mountain with sunset&#8217; kind of subject to paint. A friend suggests BR hills and he goes there. He spends a day there and goes back to Bangalore with a painting. Which painting would be a true work of art (as they say!)&#8230;</p>
<p> 1) Mountains with trees, and sun setting: Mountains are portrayed with a diffuse growth of trees and a huge expanse of forest is shown. While the painting itself is beautiful showing a vast expanse of forest, a magnifying glass would only show &#8216;trees with green leaves&#8217;!</p>
<p>2) The same mountains and trees and the expanse but, with an attention to detail&#8230;the <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_4">Lianas</span> hanging, the <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_5">racquet</span>-tailed <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_6">drongos</span> flying, the spot of the road (a <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_7">nightjar</span> for a trained eye!), the shadow of the cloud over the canopy, string of trees on the mountains with a plusher green(where the streams flow!), trees with bare bark near the <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_8">water body</span> (debarked by elephants!), a huge group of swifts overhead (strong monsoon winds are blowing!). This artist may not at all know what I have indicated in brackets, but his &#8216;work of art&#8217; incorporates it. It is here that science meets art!</p>
<p>The artist here is like the tern we see or the cow that the doctor saw (refer the article below!) Where the cow or the tern never involve themselves in any &#8216;<span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_9">bheja</span> fry&#8217; like us, the true scientist-artist would. (Like it or not, we have a <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_10">neo</span>-cortex); And it is here that we see the meaning of birdwatching. Such should be our observations. In trying to see the angered tern or a &#8217;single <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_11">racqueted</span>&#8216; <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_12">drongo</span>, all of us have to look for a satisfying explanation. It is only that for some, this explanation lies in art and for others in science! And of course, the tern or the cow never really bothered, because they were the problem itself! (It is not the problem, but the solution that bothers us)</p>
<p>NB: I looked to S J Gould for some clarity. (Art Meets Science in The Heart of the Andes: Church Paints, Humboldt Dies, Darwin writes, and Nature Blinks in the Fateful Year of 1859 Pp 90-109 from &#8220;I Have Landed &#8211; The End of a Beginning in Natural History&#8221;, Stephan Jay Gould, 2002)</p>
<p style="font-style: italic;">Dr. <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_13">Sridhar&#8217;s</span> reply:</p>
<p style="font-style: italic;">Dear <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_14">Prashanth</span>,</p>
<p>//snip&#8230;Now let me add to the confusion. The word emotion is derived from its <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_15">Latin</span> ancestor &#8216;<span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_16">emovere</span>&#8216; which means &#8216;to be disturbed&#8217;. So literally speaking, the bird was disturbed. To be disturbed is one of the essential qualities of &#8220;life&#8221;.  In addition, emotion is the body&#8217;s response to life situations, preparing it to be &#8220;responsible&#8221;! Again, Responsibility literally means Ability to Respond adequately and appropriately from moment to moment. Coming back to emotions, it is a  much earlier manifestation in evolutionary scheme, as the chemicals are released from the primitive <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_17">reptalian</span> brain and not from the much junior <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_18">neo</span> cortex. What the birds probably don&#8217;t do is to name the various emotions as we do . Our <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_19">neo</span> cortex constantly tries to name, find meaning where there they are probably not needed.We seem to complicate things in trying to find meaning.( philosophical ? uh?) So  &#8220;life is constant Disturbance&#8221; and  the beauty lies in constant Responsibility to the <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_20">never ending</span> Disturbance !!</p>
<p>I would like to tell you about a certain event that happened a few years ago, which has left a deep impression in my mind. When I was in the clinic, a herd of cows came into the campus. Soon they were being driven away. One of them while trying to get out, got entangled in the barbed wire fence and came down with a thud. I wanted to help it extricate its leg . When I went<br />near it , it started struggling more vigorously and the leg started bleeding. Hence I withdrew. The cow lay there helplessly, frothing from the mouth and the eyes were upturned and pitiable. Soon, another cow on the other side of the fence came near the &#8216;fallen&#8217; cow, sniffed it and started<br />licking. Within a few seconds, the cow came alive and got up smoothly extricating its trapped leg and went away. Probably , I noticed a wide cascade of emotional expressions in the cows, raging from fear, helplessness and love and <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_21">thankfulness</span>. The animals did not take the trouble to name the emotions, <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_22">nor</span> did they care to thank!  Who knows, after a while they might have locked horns over an inviting bull!</p>
<p>I can only marvel at nature and I think I <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_23">will</span> be a terrible failure to explain everything . I would rather be an artist!</p>
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		<title>River Terns, Emotions and Confusing answers!</title>
		<link>http://daktre.com/2007/11/02/river-terns-emotions-and-confusing-answers/</link>
		<comments>http://daktre.com/2007/11/02/river-terns-emotions-and-confusing-answers/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Biology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Birds]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science & Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[art]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[br hills]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evolution]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[science]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[This post is in response to some very &#8216;hazy&#8217; topics in the &#8216;grey zone&#8217; between science and philosophy! The following post by my friend Sudheendra about Black-bellied Terns triggered this response, which led to a wonderful discussion on the same.
Sudhee asked &#8220;&#8230;During my regular birding sessions&#8230;&#8230;i encountered many water birds&#8230;.encountered 3 River terns and One [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is in response to some very &#8216;hazy&#8217; topics in the &#8216;grey zone&#8217; between science and philosophy! The following post by my friend Sudheendra about Black-bellied Terns triggered this response, which led to a wonderful discussion on the same.
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sudhee asked</span> &#8220;&#8230;<span style="font-style: italic;">During my regular birding sessions&#8230;&#8230;i encountered </span><span style="font-style: italic;">many water birds&#8230;.encountered 3 River terns and One blackbellied </span><span style="font-style: italic;">tern&#8230;the river terns &#8220;tried to attack&#8221; me by making harsh screeching </span><span style="font-style: italic;">calls in flight, coming very close and taking sudden upflight,  </span><span style="font-style: italic;">everytime i tried to go near the water body&#8230;.the blackbellied tern </span><span style="font-style: italic;">was attacking the river tern without reasons..like the river tern was </span><span style="font-style: italic;">taking rest on the bank..this blackbellied tern tried to attack it </span><span style="font-style: italic;">from above..it did that several times! later when the river tern also </span><span style="font-style: italic;">got angry they had a chase where blackbellied tern with enormous speed </span><span style="font-style: italic;">was able to attack the river tern more fearlessly&#8230;..the river tern&#8217;s </span><span style="font-style: italic;">attitude of territory(?)awareness..or breeding resposiblities have </span><span style="font-style: italic;">not been given in salim ali&#8230;i even observed once a red wattled </span><span style="font-style: italic;">lapwing trying to attack a DOG when it was approaching (? ) its </span><span style="font-style: italic;">nest..the blackbellied terns&#8217; attitude ignited a question in me &#8230;do </span><span style="font-style: italic;">birds have emotions..very basic emotions..like caring(love)..Fear..and </span><span style="font-style: italic;">Anger or those are only reflexes? can anybody enlight me more&#8230;NS</span>?&#8221;</p>
<p>Your description is more indicative of a nesting colony of River Terns rather than &#8216;plain territoriality&#8217;. However, I wonder if the lake you talk about can accomodate breeding colonies of River Terns. Does it have open sand banks. Is it a perennial lake and was it big enough. The terns prefer sandy &#8216;river&#8217; banks for nesting and they may be found nesting in colonies with Pratincoles or with other species of terns. Both the River and the Blackbellied being resident terns occupying almost similar niches, conflict over resource(nesting site, feeding site etc) would be a common occurence. Now coming to your Question on emotions and birds&#8230;Hmm&#8230;I think it is a question most asked and never adequately answered. Not answered adequately, not because of lack of information to answer them, but because of lack of belief. Such is our hobby (profession??) that it comes somewhere in the grey zone between art and science. I would divide birdwatchers into those with predominant artistic traits and those with predominant scientific traits. Where one says &#8220;Blessed are we to be able to appreciate natures beauty&#8221;, the other would attribute it to his trained eye! Where one experiences wonder and awe at the Peacock&#8217;s tail or the Minivet&#8217;s scarlet, the other sees Sexual Selection! Where one sees a remarkable plan and purpose in and eagle&#8217;s hunt, the other sees survival! Where one sees &#8216;love&#8217; when two bulbuls cuddle, the other sees &#8216;breeding record&#8217;! Where one sees anger, the other sees &#8216;territorialiity&#8217; And like you saw passion and aggresssion in the tern&#8217;s action, somebody else will see evidence of a nest and &#8220;nothing else&#8221;! And so, is the scientist better, because he knows so much more about the whys, hows and what nots? Well, that would be like comparing Alexander and Buddha! (There are no common standards for this comparison)<br />Yesterday evening during a walk, I was asked by somebody who has been watching(seeing!) birds for 11 years, whether, I could just look at them and not name them. It was then that I realised that I had compromised a lot on the artist front in arming myself scientifically. I realised that my mind said &#8220;Scarlet Minivet&#8221; when I saw one of the most wonderful birds flitting around and whistling. It will probably take some time to reawaken the part of me which does not conclude anything on seeing. So here is a lot of mumbo-jumbo instead of the answer to your question. Trust me, I have been there and have not found any answers. I am sure the above will help you in your journey to find the answer. Science is one route. It will give you all the explanations that perfectly fit your observations. But does that satisfy you. If you are now told that the terns are mere survival machines which are programmed to react the way they did under particular circumstances, would you be happy to take that answer, just because it is scientific?</p>
<p>Art is another. Just read a poem (I am sure somebody has &#8216;poetried&#8217; on terns) and you will see that the artist is able to attribute numerous purposes and emotions to the tern&#8217;s actions. Read Jonathan Livingston Seagull and you will see how there can be a whole world of gulls with their<br />own beliefs and traditions. But, how can you prove it, you mind will ask! So, the question rings back. Did the tern have emotion? All we can do is only conjecture or write poetry. The truth is with the tern, and it does not want to tell you!</p>
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		<title>Ramble on&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://daktre.com/2006/01/13/ramble-on/</link>
		<comments>http://daktre.com/2006/01/13/ramble-on/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Science & Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Retrospection]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daktre.com/?p=21</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A lone male child was born to a lady in a nondescript hospital in a small town in South India. The mother as was, and as has been ‘traditional’ to any Indian Family, had gone to her mother’s place for ‘safe confinement’ of her first pregnancy – quite complacent of the fact that a new [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p class="MsoNormal">A lone male child was born to a lady in a nondescript hospital in a small town in South India. The mother as was, and as has been ‘traditional’ to any Indian Family, had gone to her mother’s place for ‘safe confinement’ of her first pregnancy – quite complacent of the fact that a new life was burgeoning inside of her. Of course, no reason for her to be overawed, as this was the routine. In fact, her giving birth gave a new meaning to ‘fulfillment’ or ‘consummation’ of her married life.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thus was born a new child that day, the 7<sup>th</sup> of December, 1979 bringing joy and supposedly a harbinger of prosperity to the whole family. (No special moment for this child, as it shared its moment of arrival with at least 6 others in this planet!)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It has been nearly 24 long years for me in this sojourn called ‘Life’, a long way since the naked, wordless, crying child that the above narrative talks about. The child was blessed with coming into a family that already had a shelter and could afford much more than just food and clothing. (Although, the same cannot be said about many other unfortunate children that entered this world, that very same moment). Words were put in its mouth, and the child was rewarded for doing things in a certain way, and punished for certain other things. The child was on the path to becoming a ‘cultured’ member of the society.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is where the reference to the child in the ‘third person’ stops because, somewhere around this time, the child’s consciousness matured, and lasting memory became a part of his mental capabilities. This is when, the ‘I’ comes into the picture.</p>
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent" style="margin-left: 0in; text-indent: 0in;">I remember going to school. My favorite and high-scoring subject was General Knowledge and Social Studies. The school was a long journey. And friends made in high school were here to stay. The same continued through college, this one being St. Joseph’s College of Arts &amp; Science. (I always nursed a sense of admiration towards Christian Missionary run, educational institutions – for the sense of ‘disciplined freedom’ – if there is any such thing). From there, good academic grades sent me to a Medical college (Govt. Medical College, Mysore), which I entered with a sense of fulfillment. Fulfillment, it was not to be. I realised that the best of sciences will not give me all the answers I seek. My belief that being a doctor will help me to connect with a lot of people proved to be an illusion</p>
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent" style="margin-left: 0in; text-indent: 0in;">Disillusioned though I was, disheartened I wasn’t. I became a student leader in my college. I have learnt to relate to so many different kind of people and connect with different cultural backgrounds. Right from participating in a host of speaking events and debates, to addressing the college in capacity of the General Secretary of the College, connecting to people has been an enjoyable experience for me.</p>
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent" style="margin-left: 0in; text-indent: 0in;">So this is my account of myself – a medical student, at the fag end of his student life, with a great academic and extra-curricular background, with a deep understanding of Hinduism and its cultures, with learnt understanding of Christianity, an immense interest to find answers and with a lot of <span> </span>unanswered questions!</p>
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		<title>Indian Contributions to Science</title>
		<link>http://daktre.com/2005/02/08/indian-contributions-to-science-my-work-on-wikipedia/</link>
		<comments>http://daktre.com/2005/02/08/indian-contributions-to-science-my-work-on-wikipedia/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2005 09:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Science & Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[history]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[india]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[indus valley civilisation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[science]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Based on an early draft I wrote for an article on wikipedia
&#8220;The Indian way of life provides the vision of the natural, real way of life. We veil ourselves with unnatural masks. On the face of India are the tender expressions which carry the mark of the Creator’s hand. &#8220;
- George Bernard Shaw, Famous British [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<h2>Based on an early draft I wrote for an article on wikipedia</h2>
<p>&#8220;<em>The Indian way of life</em> provides the vision of the natural, real way of life. We veil ourselves with unnatural masks. On the face of India are the tender expressions which carry the mark of the Creator’s hand. <em>&#8220;</em></p>
<p>- <a title="George Bernard Shaw" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw">George Bernard Shaw</a>, Famous <a title="British" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British">British</a> Author</p>
<p><strong><a title="India" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India">India</a></strong> &#8211; this was how the <a title="Greeks" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks">Greeks</a> referred to people on the other side of the Indus (Sindhu). This civilization that the Greeks were referring had seen the light of day, and had made great strides in Science and Technology, long before the Greeks and Romans came by.</p>
<p>The so-called Indus Valley Civilization situated suitably, with a lot of resources, was a lesson in city planning and sanitation. One of the first examples of closed &#8216;gutters&#8217;, public baths, granaries etc. are seen here.</p>
<p>The ancient Indian texts &#8211; <a title="Vedas" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas">Vedas</a>, <a title="Upanishads" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads">Upanishads</a>, and various other treatises (Siddhantas) are replete with definitions, derivaitons etc. For eg. one of the books, the &#8220;Pancha-siddhantika&#8221; talks about the calculation of eclipses. The ancient Indian culture has always been diverse in its choice of spices, condiments, ornamental items, and hence India was the origin of palm and coconut oil, indigo and other vegetable dyes and pigments like cinnabar. Many of the dyes were used in art and sculpture which surivive even today. Perfumes and their variety in Indian history demonstrate a deep knowledge and application in chemistry, particularly in distillation and purification processes.</p>
<p>The Greek historian Ktesias who lived in the 4th century B.C. has observed that &#8220;Among the Indians are found certain insects about the size of beetles and of a colour so red that at first sight one might mistake them for cinnabar. Their legs are of extraordinary length and soft to the touch. They grow upon trees which produce amber, and subsist upon their fruit. The Indians collect them for the sake of the purple dye, which they yield when crushed. This dye is used for tinting with purple not only their outer and under-garments, but also any other substance where a purple hue is required. Robes tinted with this purple are sent to the <a title="Persian" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian">Persian</a> King, for Indian purple is thought by the Persians be marvellously beautiful and far superior to their own.&#8221; Ktesias also says that the Indian dye is deeper and more brilliant than the renowned Lydian Purple.</p>
<p>The <a title="Sandalwood" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandalwood">Sandalwood</a> tree is native to India. Sandalwood has been a known item of export from India since ancient times.</p>
<p>The earliest recorded use of copperware in India has been around 3000 B.C.</p>
<p>&#8220;<em>The <a title="Hindus" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindus">Hindus</a> excel in the manufacture of iron. They have also workshops wherein are forged the most famous sabres in the world. It is impossible to find anything to surpass the edge that you get from Indian <a title="Steel" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel">Steel</a></em>&#8220;. This passage which has been quoted in the notes to the Periplus on page 71 proves beyond doubt, in the words of a foreign historian, that the art of <a title="Smelting" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smelting">smelting</a> and casting iron was well developed in ancient India.</p>
<p><a title="Shipping" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping">Shipping</a> was another active area, and there were treatises and manual on shipbuilding widely available around the 5th century AD itself. There are also references to ships in the remains of the <a title="Indus Valley Civilization" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization">Indus Valley Civilization</a>, indicating shipping knowledge earlier than 2000 BC.</p>
<p>A panel found at <a title="Mohenjodaro" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohenjodaro">Mohenjodaro</a>, depicting a sailing craft. Vessels were of many types. Their construction is vividly described in the Yukti Kalpa Taru, an ancient Indian text on Ship-building. Sanskrit and Pali literature has innumerable references to the maritime activity of Indians in ancient times. There is also one treatise in Sanskrit, named Yukti Kalpa Taru which has been compiled by a person called Bhoja Narapati. (The Yukti Kalpa Taru (YKT) had been translated and published by Prof. Aufrecht in his &#8216;Catalogue of Sanskrit Manu scripts. An excellent study of the YKT had been undertaken by Dr. Radha Kumud Mookerji entitled &#8216;Indian Shipping&#8217;. Published by Orient Longman, Bombay in 1912.)</p>
<p>The <a title="Excavations" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excavations">excavations</a> of the ruins at Mohenjodaro and Harrappa (today in Pakistan) proved the existence of a developed Urban civilisation in India. The indus valley civilization is dated around 3000 B.C. Thus since the last 5000 years. India has had an urban civilisation. The existence of an urban civilization presumes the existence of well devel oped techniques of architecture and construction. Indian construction and architecture has been the most dynamic of technologies. The original contribution in this field was by the Indians to have a separate science with principles, laws and plans for every type of building. This science called as &#8216;<a title="Vaastu Shastra" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaastu_Shastra">Vaastu Shastra</a>&#8216; offered details and plans based on very scientific principles like Strength of Materials, ideal height of construction, presence of adequate sources of water, light hence preserving hygiene. It is one of the first building science to be so all-inclusive. Later on, Indian rulers adopted anything that appealed to them, and incorporated this in our buildings. Hence we see many historical monuments in India with strong Greek, Scythian, Mongol and of course, <a title="Islamic" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic">Islamic</a> influences. Having incorportated these aspects from other cultures, the output is something unique, and seen nowhere else in the world.</p>
<p>In India, mathematics has its roots in Vedic literature which is nearly 4000 years old. Between 1000 B.C. and 1000 A.D. various treatises on mathematics were authored by Indian mathematicians in which were set forth for the first time, the concept of zero, the techniques of algebra and algorithm, square root and cube root. Vedic Mathematics, as it is referred to today, is a separate field of study and courses are offered even in foreign universities.</p>
<p>It was from this translation of an Indian text on <a title="Mathematics" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics">Mathematics</a> that the <a title="Arab" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab">Arab</a> mathematicians perfected the decimal system and gave the world its current system of enumeration which we call the Hindu-Arabic numerals. The concept of &#8216;<a title="Zero" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero">Zero</a>&#8216; seems to have been a contribution of ancient Indian thought. Every ancient Indian language has multiple words to refer to this concept of &#8216;Void&#8217; or &#8216;nothing&#8217; &#8211; &#8216;Shunya&#8217; in Sanskrit. In Brahma-Phuta-Siddhanta of Brahmagupta (7th century), the Zero is lucidly explained and was rendered into Arabic books around 770 AD. From these it was carried to Europe in the 8th century. However, the concept of Zero is referred to as Shunya in the early Sanskrit texts of the 4th century BC and clearly explained in Pingala’s Sutra of the 2nd century. Mathematicians like Aryabhata, Bhaskara wrote works that still stand out for their originality, and timelessnes. Aryabhatta in 499 AD worked the value of Pi to the fourth decimal place as 3.1416. Centuries later, in 825 AD, Arab mathematician Mohammed Ibna Musa says that &#8220;This value has been given by the Hindus (Indians)&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Nalanda University, established somewhere in 700 BC once housed 9 million books.It was the center of education for scholars from all over Asia. Many Greek, Persian and Chinese students studied here under great scholors &#8211; Kautilya, Panini, Jivaka, Vishnu Sharma. THe vast complex that remains today stands testimony to the fact that a great centere of learning stood here, and it was probably one of the first examples of a University-based education system. The university was burnt down by pillaging invaders who overran India in the 11th century<br />
&#8220;<em>India was the motherland of our race</em> and Sanskrit the mother of Europe&#8217;s languages. India was the mother of our philosophy, of much of our mathematics, of the ideals embodied in Christianity&#8230; of self-government and democracy. In many ways, Mother India is the mother of us all<em>.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>- <a title="Will Durant" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Durant">Will Durant</a> &#8211; American Historian 1885-1981</p>
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